Ivonne Urrutia Alexander Henriquez Sara Funes High Tech Los Angeles Interviewers Dana Johnson Canoga Park Interviewee Date: May 12, 2013 Place: Ivonne's Living Room Ivonne Urrutia: So this is Dana Johnson. Thank you for coming today, well our first, and our major question would be, what do you think the Black Power Movement was all about? Dana Johnson: The black power movement was to try to get equal rights for African Americans during the 60's. And it was a different way to try and get equal rights as different than the Martin Luther King movement. Remember we had 2 different movements for African Americans back in the 60s, you had people down south with the protest at the counters but it was more of a peaceful type movement with sit ins. Where as The Black Power Movement was kind of saying We're people we dont want to get hit in the head to try to get Civil Rights, we want you to recognize us as equal people now and we are willing to hit back, strike back, and fight back. But there were other things that the black power movement did that a lot of people go unnoticed, the black power movement had big effort in starting the head start movement which a lot people dont know. I know some people look- everybody knows what a head start is now. Head start is like a kind of pre-kindergarten program where you take your kids in the morning before they get to kindergarten, well on the west coast the black panthers who were apart of the black power movement, had already started a head start center in like Oakland or Los Angeles, for people to take their kids to, & the black panthers had already started another movement that the government took over which showed the free breakfast movement which they had already set up centers for kids to get a free breakfast every morning before they went to school, well pretty soon the government took over that now all the school pretty much got a free breakfast movement. But -that also was an out shoot of the black power movement in the 60's, and nobody really talks about it. Alexander Henriquez: What does Black Power movement mean to you? D.J: It means to me that we-we want to be recognized equally and- we're proud of being black, African American; during the 60's we called it Black, we were proud of being African American and we wanted some of our achievements come to light and not be hidden in the background. I don't know if you noticed that a lot-things other ethnicity’s do, gets kind of buried under a rug by the government and they never really give-their said-do for those accomplishments. You have the Wind Talkers during World War 2 -that we didn't hear about, those were Indian guys, who the government used their Navajo code to actually come up with a signal system, that the European forces during World War 2, The Hitler movement couldn't-couldn't decipher it, so that they could-I take that back this was in the Pacific, so it was the Japanese that couldn't decipher the Wind Talkers code, so they wouldn't know what we were doing. I don't know if you've heard about the Red Tails, I mean everybody heard of he Red Tails now, but the Red Tails, that's something that happened in the 1940's, and really only came to light maybe in the 1980's. That we had a black squadron of; p-42 airplanes that held the b-52's, to bomb Europe during World War 2. So the Black Power Movement really just, it it kind of just said we want to be recognized, you know we don't want to just be the people that are pushed to the side and our achievements don't come to light. I.U: Was there anyone who like participated in the Black Power Movement that you know of, anyone close to you? D.J: *sighs* There were people I knew but I can't really say they were close to me. I mean at the time of the Black Power Movement I was probably, this was a late 60s thing so, I’m like eleven-twelve years old, kind of too young to be involved in the movement, but to just-looking around at all the eighteen and thirty year old people who were starting to get a more-would I would call an Afrocentric thought about things. I don't know if you ever heard about James Brown, James Brown sang the soul singer, who made the song-it was Say It Loud I'm Black & I am Proud, it one of his big songs and before that being Black was something that, a lot of African Americans weren't really proud to be. Every body strolled to try to be white, instead of just being themselves. A.H: Does the name Tommy Smith, do you know anything-? D.J: Yea Tommy Smith was one of the-he ran in the 1968 Olympics, I don't remember what the minute was but it was Tommy Smith and John Carlos who got up at the medal ceremony, instead of just standing there and giving them their medals like most athletes they put the fist in the air and that caused a big commotion and got stripped off their medals,it-it was a proud moment for black people, but white people didn't appreciate at the time. I.U: So you felt proud? D.J: I feel proud, yea, they won the race. They got the black fist up there. I.U: So-would you agree with the what the Black Panther Party was doing? Like did you support anything or were you more of a-civil rights movement kind of person? D.J: I kind of agreed more with the Civil Rights Movement people because-you don't really have enough force to try to try and take on the US government, with weaponry. So the Civil Rights Movement I thought was going to be more affective because it was trying to get it into the soul and conscious of white people. Whereas--History shows that whenever weapons go up against the government, you're going to lose because you just don't have enough fire power to--fight the US government through weaponry. A.H: What was one thing of the Black Power Movement that impacted you the most? D.J: *laughs* the free breakfast program. The free breakfast program, not that I was really poor but when they finally agreed to start putting free breakfasts in the school, I probably was the first one in line. But seriously though, if you're growing up and you never really feel- proud of black achievement-because mostly black achievements doesn't get put up to the forth front. So the Black Power Movement kind of just made me feel proud that-as the black people we were trying to stand up and trying to get noticed. And even as a man you want to feel like this, some fight in you, you know you aren't just going to sit back and have let people sick dogs on you that are some type of recoparbilation. A.H: So the Black Power Movement in general impacted you? D.J: Yea it impacted me. It inspired me. You know I tried to do better in school. I've always done well in school but-I always looked up to the people that tried to push the struggle. Just some of the things I tried to do. I.U: So-Where?- You mentioned at the time you were 12, at the time that this whole thing happened. If you were a bit older you could have participated in the Black Power Movement, would you have? And what would you do about it? D.J: I think I would have-participated in the movement but not-not so much in getting a gun and trying to-threaten people with, “give me freedom or I'm going to shoot you”. I probably would have just tried to be behind the scenes. I mean I probably would have been the guy to try to educate people, as far as technology goes, and things of that sort. I always been a brainy guy never a fighter type of guy. But definitely there were-I was sympathetic to their cause, just not really old enough to be totally envolved. A.H: Were you ever a target of racial prejudice? D.J: Oh yea, many times. Even, I mean I been called the “n” word by white people in passing cars. I been a- I guess the worst case of racism, I don’t want to say the worst but one that sticks out on my mind is going to college and being one of two black people in the college and every test day the professor would tell me and my friend to sit on opposite ends of the room. Now nobody else in the class-you had white guys in the class, we had Mexicans in the class, we had Persians in the class, we had Indians in the class, but for some reason this teacher would always tell me and my friend to sit on opposite ends. Where we sat we couldn't sit together during class, because he assumed that we didn't know what we were about to do and we were going to cheat. Which to me that was kind of blatant. racism there but course I didn’t really say anything I just go in take my class,and take the test ad get my A, B, or C and be done with it. I.U: So even with that you still wouldn't have gotten a gun and-..? D.J: Naw. A.H: Do you think the-”N” word has changed by definition in modern culture today? D.J: Yes it has, because of the rap movement, now a lot of people just use that word...a lot. The people that deals rap music now pretty much have made that word a-a word that anybody can use. Whereas when I was younger, before there was rap music, it was strangely a word the black people used, affectionately and white people used it dogratively. But now its just kind of a word. But still I wouldnt expect a white person to use that word around me, and I notice that event that word when there is talking and that word comes up, my white friends are always very careful, to just say the “n” word but nobody really wants to say that word out loud. I.U: What did you think about the outcome of the whole movement? D.J: Well, there were some gains, and there were some positives, I mean of course you had the head start thing, you had the free breakfast thing, and those were good things that came out of the movement. You had black people suddenly become proud of themselves. A lot of black people weren't proud of being black, but the problem is that the government pretty much infintrated the movement and blew it up. You know you had the Ho...-something called the Hole n' Tell pro, which was a movement that Jangle Hoover and the FBI used to try and infintarate, like they would take black guys that were sympathetic to the US government and plant them in the Black Power Movement to use as like-intelligence people so the government would always know where people were and what they were doing. So they made it a priority to blow up the Black Power Movement. Ironically at the same time the Mafia was coming to growth and the FBI really didnt do anything to stop the growth of the Mafia until it was too late. A.H: If you could speak to Martin Luther King Jr. today, what would you say? D.J: * sighs * I would say thank you for all the sacrifices you've made so I could have the things that I now have, and hopefully- I hope I'm living a life that you could be proud of because I am very aware that there is a lot of people that sat, and marched, and sacrificed their things so that I could go to my college of choice and I could have my job of choice-which in the 60's I couldn't. I.U: How did the people around you feel about what was going on and having to fight for the acknowledgment? D.J: It's a strange-it was a strange dynamic because being grandparent raised my grandparents really paid no attention to the Black Power Movement. My grandparents were people that kind of just took the idea of “we don't want to cause any trouble”, “we don't want to make anybody mad”, we have jobs. Even though my grandmother worked as a-like a housekeeper. They were happy to have those jobs, but they really didn’t have a good grasp before seeing the future, even though they didn't want me to be a housekeeper, and they didn't want me to-you know-my grandfather worked on a warehouse, he cut lawns, and he did all kind of things. My grandparents pushed education with me, but they didn't realize the details of the education, they didn't understand that a lot of people didn't want me to get an education, they wanted me to stay ignorant because they wanted me to be a servant. So you had that going on with the older people, but mostly younger people were with the Black Power Movement because they were I don't know kind of glamourized because they would fight back. None of us people on the West Coast wanted to sit there take blows without fighting back. A.H: Did anything happen in the Black Power Movement that you would of done differently? D.J: Let me think about that. Yes- a lot of people caught up in the Black Power Movement, I would say sold themselves out to bribery, drugs, you know, back then you could take a guy who was rising in the Black Power Movement and you could say we going to give you a good job and we'll let-and pull you out of the movement, you know but when you pull that guy out he is the key guy in the movement and now the movement kind of stalls, so if there's anything I was thinking of doing they could have been more aware of the government's effort to-to try and stop the movement not been so eager to-sell it out for mini-old things. I.U: Was there anyone that you knew who had a great influence on you about the Black Power Movement? D.J: No I can't say they did, I just witnessed things and read a lot about it at the time. A.H: Was there anything that you did not like about the Black Power Movement? D.J: Well the guns were scary. You know the guys were walking around with guns, and the guys didn't seem to have any-how can I put it?- They weren't afraid of the police. Now there was reason they shouldn't be afraid because the police were pretty brutal back then. So I was always a little skimpish about the guns you know, you challenge the police obiviously the police aren't going to back down, and there is going to be some kind of gun involvement and people are going to get shot. A.H: Was there-do you remember the Black Panther Party? Did you support their ideas? D.J: Yes I did. A.H: Why, why did you support there ideas? D.J: Because I felt like they were pro-black, and I felt like it was a new-progressive way of thinking that didn't-that tried to push itself to make black-black people proud of themselves. And just not-another minority here-just to do whatever white people want you to do I.U: At the time you were young right, so how did the people around you react to when the 24th amendment was enacted-which eliminated poll taxes on voters? D.J: I don't think that had much-I didn't really here anything about that-of anybody being happy, sad, and mad or any kind of strong reaction to the 24th amendment. I.U: Did you regret not being, having to be able to do anything to help the cause? D.J: No I can't say I regret it. I always felt like timing was a big key-because if it was your time, its your age, then yea I would be involved . I'm a guy who just missed the Vietnam War by two years, but that doesn't mean that had I been drafted, I would of not been to Vietnam, I wouldn't have been a draft option, so-if it's time for me to be involved, I'll be involved, but I don't regret not being involved, and I don't feel like I've missed anything by not being old enough to wear a leather jacket and walk around with a shot gun trying to push the cause. A.H: What the assassination of MLK, do on the social right, well on the growing social rights of blacks? D.J: It made black people mad but it also made black people sad. I mean we all loved Martin Luther King, it felt like he was doing positive things here, and for your leader to just get shot like that, I just felt it was a-a tremendous blow. And it almost makes me feel kind of helpless because, I don't know if you remember Malcolm X had been assassinated, maybe three to four years earlier than that, there was a overwhelming thought that whenever you have somebody be like a leader, the US government is going to shoot them down. And in fact in the FBI memos, you know a lot of that has come to light now. They were very much against somebody quote, unquote, being a black Messiah, you know they felt like they need to make sure that the-that African Americans did not have like a leader, of the likes of Malcolm X or Martin Luther King. A.H: Do you think the assassination slowed down or almost prevented the Black Power movement? D.J: Well, I kind of think that it-it didn't really slow down the Black Power movement, I think that the FBI involvement in there emphasis in crushing the Black Power movement is what really knocked that down, but I do feel like the assassination of Martin Luther King enlightened a lot of white people to the fact that, you know hey these people are marching and maybe the things we've been doing for the last forty years aren't right. So it's almost like the killing it might of helped, it didn't really help the Black Power movement, cause it was a separate movement??*sneeze* But because of the Black Power movement was more evil and devious to the government they pretty much-declared war on the Black Power movement. A.H: Do you think if Martin Luther King wasn't assassinated do you think the Black Power movement would of continued? D.J: No, the government would of still pushed it, they viewed it as a threat to the US government to have black people, armed black people, you know shouting anti-government things. Whereas the King movement never had any anti-government .. so the government was fine they just needed to have peace of it. I.U: So with the assassination you never felt-people never felt that oh everything is going to go down hill for now, or did you guys think this will make us stronger? D.J: I kind of think that people thought it would make them stronger now, there was an immediate woe is me, but after that I think people felt like it would make us stronger, and I really do feel like more white people took notice of what was going on after he got assassinated. Cause whenever you have a lot of white people sitting on the side lines, and even though they are not doing bad things, they are allowing bad people do bad things, and sometimes you could be guilty just cause you are not doing nothing. A.H: Do you know who Stokely Carmichael is? D.J: Yes. Heard of him. A.H: What are your views on-what do you think about his views on Civil Rights? D.J: He pretty much had the same views as the Black Panther movement, in fact if I remember right, he was in the Black Panthers. Stokely Carmichael was-I also remember Stokely Carmichael to be a very intelligent guy, that was from the South, and Stokely Carmichael had, had his fingers in the Martin Luther King movement also. But once he came out to the west coast he got a lot more involved in the Black Power movement too. But I agreed with his views, his views were in lined with what the Black Panthers were trying to do. I.U: Stokely Carmichael, he was part of the-he was actually, I think he was president of the SNCC, and when the whole Black Power movement started he decided that the white people who were in the SNCC to take them all out because he felt like this had to do-everything to do with black people and not white. How did you feel, do you think he was right? D.J: No I didn't think he was right with that because you really can't change-I don't think one ethnicity can change the government's view of things, in America, you have to have sympathizers-you always need white sympathizers, I mean even back in slavery, when they freed the slaves, they wouldn't of freed the slaves if their wouldn't be white people involved in that movement too so I kind of thought he made a bad move there. A.H: So you think that if more white people were involved it would of strengthened? D.J: I think it would. I.U: Did you think it would have maybe help the cause a lot faster? Like getting all those equal rights a lot faster-or? D.J: That's a good question, I mean if white people were sitting at the counters I don't think those racist sheriffs would be hitting all the white people upside the head, but you also need to have dedicated people from the whole group to show that you mean business and that you don't really just have black people riding the coal tails and white people trying to get your own rights. A.H: Do you think that police brutality actually helped the Black Power movement considering that it got attention from people? D.J: Yes, yes it did help the Black Power movement because I really thought, that the police were way over board in a lot of air tactics and the way they reacted to things. You know, you could be crossing the street and you get arrested, and if you just say something bad, you are going to get a big beat down on that, that's not professional, you shouldn't act like that as a-as a police men, so I really thought when people saw that the police was starting way out of line things, especially in Oakland and Los Angeles, they brought more tension to the movement. Because that's really what kind of started up the movement was the brutality of the police forces around the country, they thought it was alright because they had a badge and a license, they could do anything to the people. A.H: Do you think that... I forgot my question. Oh no. I.U: Did like seeing things on TV have any impact on you? D.J: Yes, TV was a major median because when you see things on TV, suddenly it not just here, when you watch the news, and you see people get beat up, that's real, you know it's not a cartoon. When I was little, I was always fascinated with the Vietnam War also, and as you hear about the Vietnam War is one thing, when you see the news reals at night time, planes shooting and firing missiles, you know, that's a real thing going on over there. So yea the TV had a big impact on me. A.H: Do you think if black people, didn't use non-violent tactics and just straight violent tactics, do you think that would have helped the cause of the Black Power movement? D.J: Naw, that would of just obliterated them, they would of made them see evil, and have justification to just obliterate them. A.H interrupts* I was going to say if you notice, I mean now being elder we know more about the Indians, and moving forward to the west, you know one of the key components in that was us saying the Indians were bad, and the cowboys were good, and lets just obliterate the Indians because there bad, once you make it seem like that then you got everybody's sympathy; that it's okay to do that. A.H: Who do you think was more successful in getting the Black Power Movement recognized, Martin Luther King or the Black Panthers? The Black Panther Party. D.J: Well, as far as getting the Black Panther Party recognized, I would think it would be the Black Panther Party. If you are talking about the Civil Rights, then I would say, hands down, Martin Luther King's group. But definitely, you know a lot of times you need to have alternatives, you know like do you want to deal with this group that has a nonviolent movement going, or do you deal wit this group that is going to have there's a lot of bloodshed, people are gonna want to shoot so you might want to start making a deal with this group. I.U: So you like how everything turned out, right? D.J: Yes and no. I like how it turned out, I like how it was supposed to turn out, but the big problem I don’t fell like African American have taken advantage of all the opportunities that have afforded them, and I always wondered, if King could come back and he could go down to Watts, or Carlton, or go up to Oakland and see some of the disinfected areas that he was fighting for when he was , when he was in his movement he would say that, yes we got justice and equality, in the south, I mean no one is getting lynched anymore you can look at a white woman and and not get beat up but a lot of our people like in the inner cities were still really really struggling. A.H: Were you expecting this outcome? D.J: No I didn't expect this outcome at all. I.U: How come? D.J: Because rationally I just felt like if you have a chance to not get an education, everyone would jp off and get off the education wagon and it seem like even though we have an opportunity, a better opportunity, to go to schools now you look at the schools and all the colleges are very much underrepresented and so black people being in those colleges now look at UCLA its probably like 5% black, USC is probably 8% Black, so I am sure those are better numbers than in the 60s, but still those are pretty bleak numbers. A.H: Is the definition of “Black Power” different today than it was before? D.J: …Probably. Yea. I mean the young people now probably use “black power” as a sign of having of having money, when the Black Power Movement back then was probably trying to have a voice in the government and and trying to get the government to be fair when it came to black people and stop brutalizing, or using the police force to brutalize black people, I mean we still have some of that but we don't seem to have it as much now as we did then so we I think more now that black power movement is is economic...than social. I.U: So if you, if you were to speak for the voice of of the black people who have died now or who were-who were brutally mistreated back then, what do you think there reaction would be to to how it is today and how we have a black president now? D.J: They-well they would be very happy to have a black president, most definitely, but they would be so disappointed that black on black crime, the rise of the gan-, the gang movement. I mean the gang movement, a lot of people believe is a direct result of the Black Power Movement being defeated and black youngsters not having a way to go so they just start having gangs, so I think they would they'd be happy that there was Obama but they's still be a lot disappointed at were black people sit in the country today. A.H: You said that you you weren't able to do anything to aid the Black Power Movement, correct? D.J: Nah I was only eleven, twelve, thirteen years old. A.H: If you were older, would you have done anything? D.J: …It's tough to say, I-I don’t have a gun-toting mentality, you know certainty I could go to the meetings and if you wanted me to pass out fliers, if there are things behind the scenes that I can do, if you want me to organize the Free Breakfast Program, if you want me to be some sort of administrator in the Head Start Program, if you wanted me to be an example of of somebody that the government can view as a as somebody in society that is benefiting society, I can be that but I don't know if I want to you know carry a gun around and holler “kill a white.” A.H & I.U: So.. A.H: I'm sorry. I.U: So you would have been more of a a bystander, than more of someone who would have taken action? D.J: I probably would have been more of a bystander because, one of the problems I used to have with the Black Power Movement was that the Black Power Movement seemed to say that all whites were bad people. Now when you're in school and all your teachers are white, and all my teachers are nice to me, and all my teachers are trying to help me get a good education, it was tough for me to view them as bad people. So the “all” catch phrase that a lot of people in the movement tried to use was something I wasn't very comfortable with. A.H: So say you were to participate in a non-violent act, would you? Would you participate in it? D.J: Yea I would. Would I would I march and sit in at counters and let people hit me I probably would. A.H: You would be willing to get beat? D.J: Yea I probably would get on a bus and try to integrate the bus, and thing that, I probably would be involved in a more King type movement than I would a Black Power Movement. But a lot of men are like. “Give me a gun!” I.U: So were, did you know anyone who was who were like how you said “give me the gun?” D.J: Well, I mean I grew up with a lot of people like that and I've seen people having witness the Watts riots in '65 and the '92 riots in LA. I witnessed people that I thought were docile nice people, but watched them turn into like looters and and you know part of an angry mob so I've known people like that but I can't say I was good friends with people like that. And Iv'e never been like that. I.U: I forgot my question. *Awkward silence* A.H: Who-who do you think had the most influence on the Black Power Movement? D.J: ...Huey Newton. A.H: Huey Newton. And what did he do exactly? D.J: Well Huey Newton was the president of Black Panthers, the Oakland chapter. He gets a lot of credit, for almost everything that the Black Panthers do, but he he was there before Stokely Carmichael came there, and if I remember right, he he was involved in shooting a policeman, and they put him in jail for that and that started on the quote on quote “Free Huey” Movement, that was part of the late 60s. And once he got out he got framed for something and he just left the country. Which most which a lot of those guys got a high position in the Black Panthers wound up leaving the country, going to Cuba, and Africa and places like that just to get away from the government. A.H: Do you think that Huey got too much credit? D.J: …Probably. But in a way that you know whoever the leader is doesn't do as much as a lot of people who are in the movement do, but the leaders always get credit for things. I mean Obama will get credit for pulling the troops home from Iraq. And the government doesn't only work under one person, you know there are a lot people, [unclear]. I.U: So you thought-did you feel that the whole movement took like steps forward or did it take a step back? D.J: Well in the beginning it took steps forward, at the end the FBI infiltrated and pretty much destroyed it, it obviously took steps backwards because there was a void of leadership, there wasn't-they always need somebody to lead and once you get-once the leaders get knocked off, the followers don't have anybody to follow. A.H: Do you agree with the step that were taken leading into the Black Power Movement? D.J: To get-to get into it or to get it or to A.H. Interrupts* A.H: To get into into. D.J: I don't really understand the question. So ask it again. Like what steps do you-what steps A.H: Well it could, I don't know how to phrase it. Ivonne do you want to ask a question? I.U: So-let's see...so I guess what he is trying to say is, did you think that everything that the people, in order to get the rights and everything, did you feel that the steps that you guys took-that you did, and what yo did, did it get what you guys really wanted? D.J: No. Not-not what they really wanted. I don't even think-You know it seems like they wanted to be identified and have a speaking part-speaking role in government and if that's what they wanted, they're not going to get that. Your just not. Yea. I don't remember what they were asking for, land. But a lot of times we have groups pop up and they want they're forty acres of [unclear] back, they want set aside just for black people to move into. I don't agree with any of that but they did agree with that. A.H: Do you think that “Black Power” is as important today as it was before? D.J: No. No. Because theirs just a-everything more wide open now. I mean black people are pretty much-they are a part of society, everybody is not maids and servants, and you know you have the opportunity to be whatever you want to be, just like we have a president. I mean I never thought I would see a black president in my life time or in my kids life time. I just never thought that the American people would go for that so there has been a lot of social change in the mind set that we didn't have in the sixties...there was no way we would have had a black president back in the sixties. I.U: Did you think that back that the Black Power movement or “Black Power” was important? D.J: Oh yea I think it was important back then. You know things just weren't right. I mean you couldn't get into schools even if you had the credentials so-I had a professor back when I was in college that told me that they had to be professors because companies would not hire them as engineers simply because they were black, even though they had all the credentials that they need to work for those companies, the companies would hire them it not a lot of- mean not to say that is not a way, because everyone likes to hire what they know and still a chummy friendship thing going on, in trying to get a job that people tend to always hire people they are going to be more comfortable with. Honestly I was [unclear].But at least that has been shook up a little bit. A.H: Do you think that without people, like Martin Luther King or Huey Newton, do you think that the Black Power movement would have been possible? D.J: …Well any kind of movement needs some kind of a charismatic leader. You need somebody that can rabble a troops, you need somebody that is going to be a good orator, somebody who can speak properly, somebody that can put the people's word out there for other groups can hear, so you know without those dynamic leaders you have a little bit of a problem and if you have noticed we really haven't had any dynamic leaders like those guys. We have Jessie Jackson but you know he is not a Martin Luther King. A.H: Do you think that if black people would have just asked, did you think they would have gotten equality? D.J: No. A.H: No. Did you think it was necessary for them to take these sort of actions? D.J: Yes. Yes. A.H: Yea. D.J: Because people want to-people want to hold to the status quo. They want things to stay the same, nobody really likes change. I mean if you asked me for a quarter I am going to say no. I.U laughing* its just the nature of people to want to go along with things that aren't bothering them, so when you try to start getting other groups involved, people start feeling threatened that they are not going to have things their way, so they yea they needed those movements to shake things up. I.U: So I think we are going to start wrapping it up, final question, if you could, just maybe in a couple of words, go back to the original question, in a couple of words, what was the Black Power movement all about like what defines it? D.J: Trying to get racial equality, I would say. Trying to get white people to realize that we are a people just like them, that we whites, that-that the police shouldn't brutalize just because we African American or black, that are schools need to be equal equality like their schools. Yea Equality I would think that's the biggest thing. I.U: Alright A.H: Do you think that black people have equality today? D.J: No. A.H: Why not? D.J: …I think one of the problems is that white people still in control, and-and I don't want to say that is a bad thing, but what happens is with any business you tend to like whose closest to what you are. I mean a person who starts his business, the first thing he is gonna do is look at his relatives to hire, then when he can't find none of his relatives to hire, he may look at a white business owner, he might look at white people to hire, then he is going to open it up for black people, and Latino people, and Indian people, so because white people are at top of the power structure, you know the equality thing is still kind of flawed, I think. I.U: Alright. A.H: Once again we would like to thank you for giving us permission. D.J: Oh I'm flattered that you would call me to this. So thank you for the opportunity I.U: Thank you so much for the insight.